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Question about ASSJ
Topic Started: Jan 27 2012, 02:42 AM (1,551 Views)
Kruegs Outlandish Jan 28 2012, 11:25 PM Post #31
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↑ :(

I don't think SSJ changes at all :) . Goku's and Gohan's stats just raise tremendously. Like how Goku became good at Kaioken because he trained in 100g.


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+ Pyrus Jan 28 2012, 11:59 PM Post #32
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bizness86
Jan 28 2012, 11:25 PM
↑ :(

I don't think SSJ changes at all :) . Goku's and Gohan's stats just raise tremendously. Like how Goku became good at Kaioken because he trained in 100g.


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I partially agree with this.
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GrooseStrikesBack Jan 29 2012, 01:16 AM Post #33
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bizness86
Jan 28 2012, 11:25 PM
↑ :(

I don't think SSJ changes at all :) . Goku's and Gohan's stats just raise tremendously. Like how Goku became good at Kaioken because he trained in 100g.


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Woah, I thought the last bit was true... That Pedy liked that post :D

Seeing MSSjin as FPSSjin in the past, I thought it added power to SSjin, but now that I know it's MSSjin, I think that it saves energy instead of adding power, if Goku wanted a power boost, he should have worn Solar Panels :D
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Xfing Jan 31 2012, 05:03 PM Post #34
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 Guys, I'm afraid all of you are missing the point. And I used to think the same way, but right now this has changed. Goku didn't use ASSJ against Perfect Cell, because he couldn't. He even told Gohan he was fighting at his max, which Gohan found unimpressive. Why couldn't he transform into ASSJ? Let's analyze the manga quote.

Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

"Even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small" - this part is the key. It's supposed to be understood as "even if they increase their power, they won't go buff and waste tons of ki". I think I even saw it translated in a fan translation like "they won't get so heavy" or something to that tune. What does it mean? It means that as soon as you've Mastered the Super Saiyan stage, there is no more Ascended or Ultra. You just get so used to Super Saiyan that you can freely modify your powerlevel (Goku and Gohan exiting HTC are some of the only manga examples of Super Saiyans with no auras). What's more, due to having conditioned your body, you can now increase your power all the way up to the Ultra level and don't get needlessly buff or exhausted too rapidly. That's why Mastered Super Saiyan is the best Super Saiyan variant of all. It combines the power of Ultra with no speed impairment due to heaviness, and no excessive energy waste. Stuff like "MSSJ is not stronger than regular SSJ but more efficient in battle" doesn't mean jack in the DBZ universe. You're stronger, you win. That's how it works. It just takes a bit of interpretation. MSSJ is therefore much stronger than regular SSJ, up to 4x I think (I don't believe that the initial multiplier stays 50x for the whole series, though).

And about ASSJ and USSJ... these forms don't decrease your speed. It's another common misconception. It's more about developing speed and power proportionately, which Ultra doesn't do. How I see this in numbers:

SSJ Trunks - Power: 20 Speed: 20
ASSJ Trunks - Power: 40 Speed: 40
Perfect Cell - Power: 65 Speed: 65
USSJ Trunks - Power: 80 Speed 40

USSJ increases only your power, but whatever speed increase it would have given gets nullified by the weight your body gains, so in the end you don't get any faster. If this doesn't convince you, notice that USSJ Trunks didn't do much different speed-wise against Cell than ASSJ Vegeta did. Cell was simply faster than both of them. Consequently, USSJ's only usefulness would be against an adversary with whom a Saiyan is evenly matched but wishes to gain an edge over, and USSJ would provide such an edge in terms of power, while the speed wouldn't grow. Again, that's why Goku wisely judged MSSJ is the best solution - it allows you to power up as high as USSJ would have allowed, but you don't get heavier so you also get to increase your speed.
Edited by Xfing, Jan 31 2012, 05:10 PM.
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+ Clearin Jan 31 2012, 05:24 PM Post #35
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Xfing
Jan 31 2012, 05:03 PM
Goku didn't use ASSJ against Perfect Cell, because he couldn't.
He's actually shown to be able to use both ASSj and USSj but he dismisses them both as useless.
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Kruegs Outlandish Jan 31 2012, 05:29 PM Post #36
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I hella lotta assuming with one quote as padding...

I applaud your enthusiasm but not the assumptions, I'm afraid...
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lunar2 Jan 31 2012, 07:14 PM Post #37
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 here is a theory that makes a bit more sense.

ssj wastes energy because of the natural blockers on dormant ability. assj takes advantage of these ki blockers, using them to overcharge the muscles by forcing more ki in than can be expelled out (daizenshuu refers to assj as "infusing the muscles with ki" so that fits). mssj removes the ki blockers, allowing more efficient flow of power, and access to more dormant ability (ssj2, ssj3), but the side effect is that the muscles can't be overcharged anymore, because ki can go out just as fast as it can go in, so no more assj/ussj.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Pyrus Jan 31 2012, 07:16 PM Post #38
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lunar2
Jan 31 2012, 07:14 PM
here is a theory that makes a bit more sense.

ssj wastes energy because of the natural blockers on dormant ability. assj takes advantage of these ki blockers, using them to overcharge the muscles by forcing more ki in than can be expelled out (daizenshuu refers to assj as "infusing the muscles with ki" so that fits). mssj removes the ki blockers, allowing more efficient flow of power, and access to more dormant ability (ssj2, ssj3), but the side effect is that the muscles can't be overcharged anymore, because ki can go out just as fast as it can go in, so no more assj/ussj.
Why do I always like your theories so much? You know I agree with this right here. :rofl:
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Kruegs Outlandish Jan 31 2012, 09:44 PM Post #39
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Goku = Rock Lee because Goku's an alien :) .
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